jmgregory1
Mar 22, 03:42 PM
Everyone is trying to get a piece of what Apple created - and not suffer the same fate that all those that tried to compete with the iPod faced.
Without figuring out how to differentiate from what Apple is doing AND show the consumer how they can really USE the tablet, none of these players will do much more than get a small, very small, piece of the [Apple] pie.
Those people that want the iPad to do what a computer does or what a smartphone does, are not looking at the iPad the way it was intended - as something new and different. Why should it have to do what a laptop does or how a computer or phone does it?
I'm guessing that what Apple is really working on is a way to tie together all devices that isn't just a wired interface (think their data center).
Without figuring out how to differentiate from what Apple is doing AND show the consumer how they can really USE the tablet, none of these players will do much more than get a small, very small, piece of the [Apple] pie.
Those people that want the iPad to do what a computer does or what a smartphone does, are not looking at the iPad the way it was intended - as something new and different. Why should it have to do what a laptop does or how a computer or phone does it?
I'm guessing that what Apple is really working on is a way to tie together all devices that isn't just a wired interface (think their data center).
smithrh
Apr 25, 01:43 PM
The Feds are bored.
I understand that you didn't read the article then.
It wasn't filed by the Feds.
I understand that you didn't read the article then.
It wasn't filed by the Feds.
Tomaz
Aug 7, 05:22 PM
APPLE!? Arrogant??? Naaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhhhhh.
And how do you know you guys are going to hate it? You never even used it yet. My God some of you people are such complainers. Put some dirt on it, make a hill, and get over it.
I'm sure I'm not going to hate it, it's probably gonna be fabulous, but it's not an innovation as Steve advertises it. In fact, not a single thing they showed about Leopard up to now is an innovation. Everything already exists somehow. I'm not complaining about the new features of the OS, but about how they present them. They're all (hopefully) improved versions of existing stuff!!
And how do you know you guys are going to hate it? You never even used it yet. My God some of you people are such complainers. Put some dirt on it, make a hill, and get over it.
I'm sure I'm not going to hate it, it's probably gonna be fabulous, but it's not an innovation as Steve advertises it. In fact, not a single thing they showed about Leopard up to now is an innovation. Everything already exists somehow. I'm not complaining about the new features of the OS, but about how they present them. They're all (hopefully) improved versions of existing stuff!!
osx11
Mar 22, 12:58 PM
.2 mm thinner?
let the war begin.
let the war begin.
SevenInchScrew
Aug 12, 01:15 AM
its kind of like comparing two different beasts imo.
I know they are fundamentally two different types of games in a similar genre, but he brought up the sales of the series, so I offered up another racing game series with much higher sales.
let's see, my original post:
{quote of your incorrect original post}
noticed i said, "not including demos". which all other versions are, except for the psp game. granted, the last demo, or prologue, is a PS3 greatest hits.
I don't really care if you count the Prologues as full releases or not. The fact remains...
GT1 + GT2 + GT3 + GT4 = 46M
...not 57M like you originally, and incorrectly, said.
...but if we go off number of sales (since you seem to think b/c i mentioned it, it's the only thing i take into consideration)...i'd say GT5 stacks up very well with NFS, considering everything. again, just looking at sales here
You brought up sales, not me. And last I checked, objectively, 100 is more than 57, regardless of how you subjectively look at it.
that's still not the point. having that many cars adds to the game, and adds up in data on that one disk. i'm sure many players drive those same cars in real life
No, the only thing that adds to is a stat point on the back of the box. I mean, hooray, someone's 87 CRX is in a racing game. YAY!! :rolleyes:
That is the problem with GT these days. Too much fluff, and lacking in the racing. I mean, whatever, they can make whatever kind of game they want. If they want to fill the game with 1000 cars, 800 of which most people never touch, they can do that. To me, though, they are losing what made the series great years ago.
GT5 is only on playstation.
NO WAY!!! I never knew that. :rolleyes:
with so many cars, and so many races, some need a guide. some races are very difficult.
Sure, but a "Guinness Record" for it? Again, to much fluff.
but again, it still is a real car. and the intention of producing 6 of these cars was for this game. that is clear.
No, it is a concept car that Citro�n paraded around at car shows. Lots of concept cars get built with the fake intention of going into production. But you know what? Almost none of them do. This Citro�n is no different.
I know they are fundamentally two different types of games in a similar genre, but he brought up the sales of the series, so I offered up another racing game series with much higher sales.
let's see, my original post:
{quote of your incorrect original post}
noticed i said, "not including demos". which all other versions are, except for the psp game. granted, the last demo, or prologue, is a PS3 greatest hits.
I don't really care if you count the Prologues as full releases or not. The fact remains...
GT1 + GT2 + GT3 + GT4 = 46M
...not 57M like you originally, and incorrectly, said.
...but if we go off number of sales (since you seem to think b/c i mentioned it, it's the only thing i take into consideration)...i'd say GT5 stacks up very well with NFS, considering everything. again, just looking at sales here
You brought up sales, not me. And last I checked, objectively, 100 is more than 57, regardless of how you subjectively look at it.
that's still not the point. having that many cars adds to the game, and adds up in data on that one disk. i'm sure many players drive those same cars in real life
No, the only thing that adds to is a stat point on the back of the box. I mean, hooray, someone's 87 CRX is in a racing game. YAY!! :rolleyes:
That is the problem with GT these days. Too much fluff, and lacking in the racing. I mean, whatever, they can make whatever kind of game they want. If they want to fill the game with 1000 cars, 800 of which most people never touch, they can do that. To me, though, they are losing what made the series great years ago.
GT5 is only on playstation.
NO WAY!!! I never knew that. :rolleyes:
with so many cars, and so many races, some need a guide. some races are very difficult.
Sure, but a "Guinness Record" for it? Again, to much fluff.
but again, it still is a real car. and the intention of producing 6 of these cars was for this game. that is clear.
No, it is a concept car that Citro�n paraded around at car shows. Lots of concept cars get built with the fake intention of going into production. But you know what? Almost none of them do. This Citro�n is no different.
MACMUSO
Aug 18, 08:26 AM
I do find it interested how agressive you are all being regarding G5vsIntel. Any serious mac professional would never run out and buy the first of a new machine expecially with a new chip and new software - complete lunacy - if you value your ability to get work done on a trusted set-up. The intel may be fast but for most professional musicians it's pointless until all of the software is compatible - Native instruments have a long way to go yet and most of us use their apps. And to conclude - having the fastest machine and bragging about it whie dissing the old machine don't make you any good at using it.
RIP.
RIP.
rockthecasbah
Jul 27, 01:35 PM
This means that Apple could easily upgrade the existing Intel-based Macs to the newer processor with no design changes.
Not many people seem to be making too much of a deal about this, but i don't like the sound of that. It's great for upgrading a Mini or iMac, but i really want fresh new designs for the Mac Pro and MacBook Pro. If that is the case, Apple may just wait longer for a design change just because they can! It's not like i'd turn one away, but the current designs are tiring... Oh well i'll still be excited if my "fears" are true, but i really want a fresh design.
Am i the only one that seems to think that WWDC is getting clogged up with TOO many things? I mean sure the more Apple products released/updated the better, but this keynote seems to be taking a lot of emphasis off of Leopard previews (according to the rumors) to focus more on new products. iPods galore, Mac Pros, MBPs, Mac Mini (maybe), whatever at this point, i mean where are we really fitting in Leopard other than a quick flash!?!
Not many people seem to be making too much of a deal about this, but i don't like the sound of that. It's great for upgrading a Mini or iMac, but i really want fresh new designs for the Mac Pro and MacBook Pro. If that is the case, Apple may just wait longer for a design change just because they can! It's not like i'd turn one away, but the current designs are tiring... Oh well i'll still be excited if my "fears" are true, but i really want a fresh design.
Am i the only one that seems to think that WWDC is getting clogged up with TOO many things? I mean sure the more Apple products released/updated the better, but this keynote seems to be taking a lot of emphasis off of Leopard previews (according to the rumors) to focus more on new products. iPods galore, Mac Pros, MBPs, Mac Mini (maybe), whatever at this point, i mean where are we really fitting in Leopard other than a quick flash!?!
rezenclowd3
Dec 8, 01:37 PM
{Feelings/ Thoughts on Damage}
Coolio, I believe you. I haven't played much single player since the day it was released, actually haven't played much GT5 at all as I have been so very dissapointed... Been playing Nascar online though. I should be very ashamed. However it seems that people online FOR THE MOST PART can handle turning in one direction cleanly....
Anyone notice that the last 1/4" inch of travel using the triggers on the PS3 controller is not used. It ramps to max throttle far before one is there. ALSO in this day and age, one should be able to adjust endpoints and ramping on triggers and sticks. Ugh. I should stop being used to my $500 RC car and helicopter transmitters.:cool:
Coolio, I believe you. I haven't played much single player since the day it was released, actually haven't played much GT5 at all as I have been so very dissapointed... Been playing Nascar online though. I should be very ashamed. However it seems that people online FOR THE MOST PART can handle turning in one direction cleanly....
Anyone notice that the last 1/4" inch of travel using the triggers on the PS3 controller is not used. It ramps to max throttle far before one is there. ALSO in this day and age, one should be able to adjust endpoints and ramping on triggers and sticks. Ugh. I should stop being used to my $500 RC car and helicopter transmitters.:cool:
Silentwave
Jul 14, 05:47 PM
Mac Pro $1999
2x Woodcrest 2.0Ghz
1GB DDR667
That price point for a quad would not be easy. A dual processor Xeon 2GHz woodcrest Dell workstationwith 1GB FB-DIMM 533 running Linux (cheaper than the windoze version) with a 750W power supply is nearly $2900. And even though I did my best to equalize some of the things to be more like the features of the powermac (ports, vid cards etc.), it still has the potential to be much more expensive.
2x Woodcrest 2.0Ghz
1GB DDR667
That price point for a quad would not be easy. A dual processor Xeon 2GHz woodcrest Dell workstationwith 1GB FB-DIMM 533 running Linux (cheaper than the windoze version) with a 750W power supply is nearly $2900. And even though I did my best to equalize some of the things to be more like the features of the powermac (ports, vid cards etc.), it still has the potential to be much more expensive.
samcraig
Apr 27, 09:32 AM
How is the talk of slower performance because the database isn't as large any different than the discussion about the data in the first place.
Several people were criticizing people for having tin foil hats when it came to what the data was being used for, etc
And now the same people are wearing the same tin foil hats/complaining about some mythological "slow down" by having a smaller database.
Hypocrisy LOL
Several people were criticizing people for having tin foil hats when it came to what the data was being used for, etc
And now the same people are wearing the same tin foil hats/complaining about some mythological "slow down" by having a smaller database.
Hypocrisy LOL
R.Perez
Apr 27, 03:07 PM
I knew this would just lead to more conspiracy theories. I am no fan of most of what Obama has done (speaking from the left), but this **** is RIDICULOUS!
guzhogi
Jul 15, 10:03 AM
I also wish Apple used standard ATX power supplies. That way, if you need a new power suply, you can get one from your local electronics store. I don't know if Apple already uses them, but I have a beige desktop G3 and the power supply on it is getting old and I have a bunch of extra stuff in it and the power supply can't handle it all. I've been told I can get one from a b&w G3, but going to a best buy or where ever and getting a new one I think would be a lot easier.
darh
Aug 15, 01:11 PM
Video cards won't make a difference in FCP as of now if that's what you are asking performance wise. If you are using Motion/Games, anything that really feeds off the video card, then I'd go for the higher end video card.
Otherwise I'd go for the 2.6 ghz.
Couldn't it be the harddrive that is the limiting factor in this bnechmark?
Otherwise I'd go for the 2.6 ghz.
Couldn't it be the harddrive that is the limiting factor in this bnechmark?
deadworlds
Mar 25, 11:58 PM
I'm really not looking forward to Lion at all. It just seems like a huge step backwards for those of us that use our computers as real computers and not toys. I have an ipad, an iphone and several macs, but they each have specific uses. I don't want my desktop machine to be anything like my ipad, one is for doing real work and doing my daily stuff on, the iOS gadgets are for fun games and browsing mostly.
I LOATH the whole idea of merging OSX and iOS, they shouldn't even be related. I hate how they are ruining expose, I really don't want my stuff groups by app, I want to see every window like it is now. I have no use for "full screen" apps, why would I waste all my screen real estate only showing one thing at a time? I hate the idea of getting programs through the app store on the Mac, I refuse to do that. I hate all the gesture crap going on, sure it's fine for laptop users, but it's of no use to me on my mac pro.
I think all this is just a dumbing down of what is an amazing OS. I don't use my mac with dual displays anything like I'd use an iPad, so why put that crap in there? I just don't like the direction they are taking OSX in general, and I doubt I will upgrade from snow leopard. To me this is very sad news, the day OSX and iOS merge is the day the mac dies.
I 100% agree!
I LOATH the whole idea of merging OSX and iOS, they shouldn't even be related. I hate how they are ruining expose, I really don't want my stuff groups by app, I want to see every window like it is now. I have no use for "full screen" apps, why would I waste all my screen real estate only showing one thing at a time? I hate the idea of getting programs through the app store on the Mac, I refuse to do that. I hate all the gesture crap going on, sure it's fine for laptop users, but it's of no use to me on my mac pro.
I think all this is just a dumbing down of what is an amazing OS. I don't use my mac with dual displays anything like I'd use an iPad, so why put that crap in there? I just don't like the direction they are taking OSX in general, and I doubt I will upgrade from snow leopard. To me this is very sad news, the day OSX and iOS merge is the day the mac dies.
I 100% agree!
xStep
Apr 11, 04:23 PM
Yes, its crap. The first version followed the basic principles of NLE but the new version is pathetic.
However, Randy came up with FCP for Macromedia so he has what it takes if Jobs and other consumer oriented guys can keep their ***** away from the mix.
LOL! OK, so the new generation of iMovie isn't compatible with you. I like the new iMovie. Sure it has it's quirks and a different take on the editing process, but I'm compatible with it and FCP.
Randy's experiment that turned into the new iMovie was a tool to allow him to quickly skim through his personal content for use in Final Cut. Apparently, other powers that be, when seeing it, thought it a good base for a new consumer video editor. I don't recall it being publicly shared how much influence came from others for the new iMovie. Other's influence has been assumed, except for idiots who want to personally attack Randy.
However, Randy came up with FCP for Macromedia so he has what it takes if Jobs and other consumer oriented guys can keep their ***** away from the mix.
LOL! OK, so the new generation of iMovie isn't compatible with you. I like the new iMovie. Sure it has it's quirks and a different take on the editing process, but I'm compatible with it and FCP.
Randy's experiment that turned into the new iMovie was a tool to allow him to quickly skim through his personal content for use in Final Cut. Apparently, other powers that be, when seeing it, thought it a good base for a new consumer video editor. I don't recall it being publicly shared how much influence came from others for the new iMovie. Other's influence has been assumed, except for idiots who want to personally attack Randy.
faroZ06
Apr 8, 12:34 AM
I am confused about this. Did Best Buy get iPads but tell customers that they don't have them? So now Apple pulled the iPads from the shelves, but there weren't any on the shelves...
Why would they do that :confused:?
Why would they do that :confused:?
grum
Sep 19, 08:11 AM
It gets annoying. Why? Because it's true and most people don't want to admit it.
In a few cases here and there, the extra processor power/speed is going to help. But for a majority of people buying a MacBook, they're not going to be burning home-made DVD's, doing intense Music compositions, or using it for hard-core gaming. They're going to SURF and WRITE.
As for the "resale" value, again, most people who are buying a used MacBook are NOT going to ask "is it a Merom?" They're going to ask how nice the case is, how much use it's gotten, and how much it is, and that's it.
Everybody likes to play "ooo, I'm the hard-core computing whiz and I need the BEST out there", but I bet you if you took an honest poll out there of everyone who's answered this thread, you'd find at least 75% these Apple fans have no need for for the extra speed, they just want it because it's "cool" and "fast" and it's the latest thing out there.
You may be right to a certain extent, but l i assumed that most people who want a Macbook Pro are going to be using it for intensive stuff - I was under the impressions that Macs are the platform of choice for a lot of graphics professionals etc so the high end line would have a lot of those kind of ppl buying. Granted the difference in speed will probably be fairly minimal, but when you are spending a load of cash on a top-of-the line notebook, why shouldnt you expect to have the latest and greatest technology available? It also seems quite likely they might either make them cheaper, or offer more RAM on the base model etc. so buying now unless you really have to seems foolish.
Im also not sure about your point on the resale value, i would imagine pro users probably would be concerned about which processor it had in it.
In a few cases here and there, the extra processor power/speed is going to help. But for a majority of people buying a MacBook, they're not going to be burning home-made DVD's, doing intense Music compositions, or using it for hard-core gaming. They're going to SURF and WRITE.
As for the "resale" value, again, most people who are buying a used MacBook are NOT going to ask "is it a Merom?" They're going to ask how nice the case is, how much use it's gotten, and how much it is, and that's it.
Everybody likes to play "ooo, I'm the hard-core computing whiz and I need the BEST out there", but I bet you if you took an honest poll out there of everyone who's answered this thread, you'd find at least 75% these Apple fans have no need for for the extra speed, they just want it because it's "cool" and "fast" and it's the latest thing out there.
You may be right to a certain extent, but l i assumed that most people who want a Macbook Pro are going to be using it for intensive stuff - I was under the impressions that Macs are the platform of choice for a lot of graphics professionals etc so the high end line would have a lot of those kind of ppl buying. Granted the difference in speed will probably be fairly minimal, but when you are spending a load of cash on a top-of-the line notebook, why shouldnt you expect to have the latest and greatest technology available? It also seems quite likely they might either make them cheaper, or offer more RAM on the base model etc. so buying now unless you really have to seems foolish.
Im also not sure about your point on the resale value, i would imagine pro users probably would be concerned about which processor it had in it.
CaoCao
Feb 28, 07:08 PM
That's not being exclusionist.
Rape and paedophilia are bad no matter who does them.
It would be exclusionist to say:
"Rape and pedophilia are bad for everyone except for Catholics"
Oh wait...
Do you realize how incredibly rare paedophilia is? Also the Media is stupid and uses the wrong words intentionally. Truth, outright slanderous lies, what's the difference if it sells copies eh?
Rape and paedophilia are bad no matter who does them.
It would be exclusionist to say:
"Rape and pedophilia are bad for everyone except for Catholics"
Oh wait...
Do you realize how incredibly rare paedophilia is? Also the Media is stupid and uses the wrong words intentionally. Truth, outright slanderous lies, what's the difference if it sells copies eh?
afrowq
Apr 6, 08:50 PM
If your sector of the business has decided to move to Premier because it works for them, awesome- but don't paint it as an industry trent. Cause I've seen zero migration from FCP to PP in Toronto post houses. Pro editing is still a two horse race: AVID and FCP.
And I can't help but think how ironic it will be if the new FCS will be built on AV Foundation, which was pioneered on your hated "itoys".
http://www.philiphodgetts.com/2011/02/a-new-64-bit-final-cut-pro/
Never said it was an industry-wide trent (sic). I said "a lot of professionals" have made the switch.
Thanks.
And I can't help but think how ironic it will be if the new FCS will be built on AV Foundation, which was pioneered on your hated "itoys".
http://www.philiphodgetts.com/2011/02/a-new-64-bit-final-cut-pro/
Never said it was an industry-wide trent (sic). I said "a lot of professionals" have made the switch.
Thanks.
iCrizzo
Mar 26, 10:55 AM
Bring on full screen!! :apple:
ten-oak-druid
Apr 7, 11:11 PM
I hate going into best buy. It is staffed by a bunch of people in their teens and tweens. That's fine except they tend to think giving a guess as an answer is acceptable when "I don't know" would be a better answer. I never trust them for advice and search for my answers elsewhere. I remember when I bought my first Directv with DVR unit. I asked about the USB port and whether or not you could connect an external drive. The kid looked at it, saw the usb port, and decided that must be what its for and said yes. I had encountered this before and knew not to trust him. Sure enough that port was for programming the unit only. I didn't care in that case as I didn't really need that feature and knew not to trust him anyway. But I have had other instances. Once I asked about an AV receiver and was mad when I got home to find the feature asked about was not existent.
CompUSA used to have better trained employees but then they laid them off because the company thought they were paid too much. It turned into Best Buy. I sent a letter to CompUSA telling them that laying people off would not fix the problems but only make it worse and that I hoped they went out of business for their decision to turn their backs on good employees. I didn't have to weight long for my wish to come true.
Anyway Best Buy is all there is really except for Fry's but that is not conveniently located. I can see the next electronics chain to launch easily topping Best Buy. If they hire people who actually care to learn about the product that is.
CompUSA used to have better trained employees but then they laid them off because the company thought they were paid too much. It turned into Best Buy. I sent a letter to CompUSA telling them that laying people off would not fix the problems but only make it worse and that I hoped they went out of business for their decision to turn their backs on good employees. I didn't have to weight long for my wish to come true.
Anyway Best Buy is all there is really except for Fry's but that is not conveniently located. I can see the next electronics chain to launch easily topping Best Buy. If they hire people who actually care to learn about the product that is.
33scottie33
Aug 27, 02:06 PM
That is interesting because I ordered a Macbook on Tuesday (the 22nd) and mine is also scheduled to ship on the 31st. It is suspiciously strange and hopefully it means that we'll get Meroms because I was waiting for the Merom MBP when I decided to just order a Yonah MB.
I ordered a 17" MBP on Thursday and it originally had a ship date for the 31st. Then today I got an email with a tracking number saying that it shipped today.:confused: I was hoping that mine would be a Merom too, but it does not look like it. The delivery date is now the 30th; I'll try to not open it for a couple of days or until I hear some new news.
I ordered a 17" MBP on Thursday and it originally had a ship date for the 31st. Then today I got an email with a tracking number saying that it shipped today.:confused: I was hoping that mine would be a Merom too, but it does not look like it. The delivery date is now the 30th; I'll try to not open it for a couple of days or until I hear some new news.
IceMacMac
Apr 10, 08:55 PM
...and I hate having to render. I hate the various pixel aspect ratios and formats there are, including PAL and NTSC....
Steve Jobs reality distortion field must be supercharged these days, where with a new release of FCP Apple might instantly re-write broadcasting standards and give millions of people new TVs that don't require NTSC and PAL.
You aren't expecting much at all! :D
Steve Jobs reality distortion field must be supercharged these days, where with a new release of FCP Apple might instantly re-write broadcasting standards and give millions of people new TVs that don't require NTSC and PAL.
You aren't expecting much at all! :D
darkplanets
Apr 27, 09:53 AM
I understand people's concern for privacy, but cell tower location and wifi spot location =/= actual location, at least specifically. Yes, someone could know your location if they accessed your computer and gained entry (flaw 1), then looked at said files (flaw 2), and then proceeded to attempt to triangulate your position based off of your relative locations (keep in mind you travel, thus flaw 3). I'm not saying it can't be done, just that it takes a lot of work and even more guesswork, as well as a whole host of security flaws.
This whole thing is generally over-hyped, per usual, just like with Google. Releasing the "update" however will pretty much quash this dead in it's tracks.
EDIT: Someone above mentioned Sony and PSN... Now THAT'S a security flaw. "Your credit card details may have been compromised"... as well as your address, history, billing details, etc. Not trying to defend any of the companies mentioned here, but let's get a little perspective, no? ;)
Also, do you people know how cell phones and Internet data works? I swear by some people's responses they don't. Here's a hint -- your cellular provider knows what towers you're accessing at all times, and probably even logs this. Here's another hint: data through your provider is all logged and monitored. Here's another: that wifi spot you're using? Yeah, that's all monitored and logged too by the ISP that provides to that router.
The Internet (and thus by connection cellphones via "3G" and other broadband) is NOT private nor ever will be. It's the very nature of connecting to something else that can ultimately expose everything. It's the fundamental flaw in security. Even VPN's aren't entirely secure, as the person running the VPN can monitor traffic in the concentrator, or even more amusing, your ISP or someone else can sniff packets from you->VPN server.
This whole thing is generally over-hyped, per usual, just like with Google. Releasing the "update" however will pretty much quash this dead in it's tracks.
EDIT: Someone above mentioned Sony and PSN... Now THAT'S a security flaw. "Your credit card details may have been compromised"... as well as your address, history, billing details, etc. Not trying to defend any of the companies mentioned here, but let's get a little perspective, no? ;)
Also, do you people know how cell phones and Internet data works? I swear by some people's responses they don't. Here's a hint -- your cellular provider knows what towers you're accessing at all times, and probably even logs this. Here's another hint: data through your provider is all logged and monitored. Here's another: that wifi spot you're using? Yeah, that's all monitored and logged too by the ISP that provides to that router.
The Internet (and thus by connection cellphones via "3G" and other broadband) is NOT private nor ever will be. It's the very nature of connecting to something else that can ultimately expose everything. It's the fundamental flaw in security. Even VPN's aren't entirely secure, as the person running the VPN can monitor traffic in the concentrator, or even more amusing, your ISP or someone else can sniff packets from you->VPN server.